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yjftsjthsd-h 1 days ago [-]
> To start off the install, we begin with the “System setup and README” disk. We need to partition the disk, and then do something counter-intuitive: install System 6 on a Mac partition. This is because there’s a Mac application that kicks off the A/UX boot process: SASH; the A/UX standalone shell. This ‘pre-boot environment’ allows for launching an A/UX kernel and also some disk and recovery operations.
Funny how that rhythms with having a macOS install next to Asahi Linux. The more things change:)
Also, swapping through 26 floppies to install would have been... Something.
pjmlp 12 hours ago [-]
> Also, swapping through 26 floppies to install would have been... Something.
Perfectly normal.
You would need a few for MS-DOS (I think only MS-DOS 3.3 was the last that could fit into an high density one).
Followed by about 10 for Windows 3.x, similar numbers for Turbo Pascal, Turbo C++, Clipper, Word, Excel (replace with the competition),....
And before installing all of that, don't forget to as very first step, create backup floppies from all of them, and actually use the backups during the installations, while keeping the originals in a safe place, not that the drive could damage one of them.
bluedino 23 hours ago [-]
> Also, swapping through 26 floppies to install would have been... Something.
Windows 95 was about that size, and Office was closer to 50?
At my very first job I remember installing stuff that way...ugh
gustavusharding 16 hours ago [-]
I remember installing Office on Windows 3.1 and it was about 35 floppies at that time IIRC.
ramijames 23 hours ago [-]
If I remember correctly, there's an interesting historical reason for this: a lot of the original functionality that we'd today consider "part of the OS" was actually in ROM on hardware in really old Macs. Mouse functionality, basic windowing, etc. This meant that to get A/UX running you first had to bootstrap into a light version of Mac OS and then boot into A/UX.
somat 21 hours ago [-]
It is sort of the same for DOS. When you start digging around in the source you realize it is only really half an operating system and a surprising amount is done in the BIOS.
a96 9 hours ago [-]
Yes, and it really was just a Disk Operating System.
Taniwha 20 hours ago [-]
Not really (I wrote the mouse/display drivers and kernel event queue driver for A/UX 1.x) - A/UX has it's own kernel ADB (and mouse/kbd on top of that) and display drivers, it will happily boot from hard drive, and throw up a non-mac terminal on a Mac display card without executing anything from the Mac ROMs.
The later MacOS running on A/UX ran in a single A/UX (system V) process
ramijames 19 hours ago [-]
So what am I remembering that A/UX needed to boot from ROM?
Taniwha 15 hours ago [-]
I'm pretty sure the ROMs loaded a boot sector booter and jumped into that, it's been a long time but I'm pretty sure that's what we handed over to Apple
ramijames 7 hours ago [-]
I guess that makes sense. Thanks for the answer and the trip down memory lane.
yjftsjthsd-h 23 hours ago [-]
The Toolbox ROMs, right? I can see the utility of using that (I mean, beyond that you might need to use it to boot), but why couldn't A/UX call those APIs itself? I can easily see where bootstrapping through Mac OS would be easier, but I can't immediately see why it would be particularly necessary.
kjs3 23 hours ago [-]
It's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure A/UX didn't use any of the toolbox roms and had it's own drivers (we had the source). A/UX booted from a MacOS partition because the Mac bootloader only understood booting MacOS (and it wasn't writeable with new boot code), so you booted to MacOS, then started SASH, which loaded Unix.
classichasclass 23 hours ago [-]
That's exactly the reason. NetBSD uses its own booter for the same purpose, for example.
FireBeyond 22 hours ago [-]
Yeah, that was similar to Amiga and the Kickstart concept, initially on floppy, then as a separate ROM module. Going from AmigaOS 1.3 to 2.0 with the applicable Kickstart ROM gave you a whole new UI layer.
a96 9 hours ago [-]
Yes. It was a pretty big chunk, too. Floppies were around 880k and base model RAM sizes were 512k to few MB. Having better part of a meg of libraries in ROM really helps fit more stuff in. And it was possible to load RAM patches or shadow things IIRC.
RAM: and RAD: the RAM drive and the Recoverable RAM Drive - because putting things in memory that can survive a reboot isn't just for virii!
ramijames 19 hours ago [-]
I miss the Amiga.
kjs3 23 hours ago [-]
Also, swapping through 26 floppies to install would have been... Something.
We installed it from a QIC tape when it wasn't delivered on a SCSI hard drive. Not sure if that option was generally available tho; we were doing kernel development.
nickhodge 15 hours ago [-]
Installed via QIC tape to Rodime 120Mb drive. Had fun formatting the Rodime; but got it working.
Learnt TCP/IP with this setup. Good Times(tm)
kjs3 8 hours ago [-]
Yeah...using anything other than an Apple Approved(tm) scsi disk (or, really, anything 'not Apple') was an adventure. One of my least favorite Unixen, frankly. SVR2 based when most of the world on the AT&T side of Unix was SVR3 (and SVR4 was just around the corner), some BSD bits tossed into the blender, coated in a not-very-good MacOS emulation layer. Congrats to you on your perseverance; I recall the TCP/IP stack was...challenging.
A/UX was created so Apple could bid on government contracts that had a "must be Unix and/or POSIX" checkbox (common requirement at the time). IMO, they should have either gone all-in on a "MacOS apps running perfect on a Unix kernel" and picked a better kernel, or done the Atari thing and tossed the legacy OS and gone all in on a "Unix on Apple hardware". Instead it was 'meh' all around.
classichasclass 24 hours ago [-]
A/UX 1.0 came on a pre-written 80MB disk, which indeed would have been a lot easier.
yjftsjthsd-h 23 hours ago [-]
Oh, that's even better:) I assumed the mentioned tape was the preferred way to get it, but a no-op install is faster/easier yet!
nickhodge 15 hours ago [-]
80Mb Drives were _expensive_
yjftsjthsd-h 13 hours ago [-]
I don't get the impression that a single aspect of A/UX was meant to be cheap, except perhaps in comparison to the other Real UNIX Workstation offerings.
TacticalCoder 23 hours ago [-]
> Also, swapping through 26 floppies to install would have been... Something.
I still have a legit copy of Word on 10 floppies.
It was bad. And when you'd copy so many floppies, typically one would fail and you'd only notice when installing. We weren't very advanced back then (at least I wasn't): no fancy an 11th "parity" disk that'll fix any other one that'd fail. At least not for me.
The data CD-ROM was a very welcome addition to the world back then.
bombcar 20 hours ago [-]
I remember a trick (I think it was for Windows 95) where you could copy all the files to the hard drive first and then once they were all there, you could install directly from them.
baron3dl 22 hours ago [-]
I picked up an SE/30 at the MIT flea (SwapFest) in 1999, hell bent on running A/UX on it. Never even got an installer disk image to boot.
asveikau 21 hours ago [-]
I got a Quadra 650 (if memory serves) super cheap on eBay circa 2003 and put A/UX on it successfully. I still have that machine but it hasn't been powered on in quite some time.
latchkey 23 hours ago [-]
there will always be a special place in my heart for a/ux. i ported a lot of open source software to it. ran a bbs, cu-seeme server, gopherd, httpd, and many other early internet services on it. this really gave me an early taste for what the internet would become.
anthk 22 hours ago [-]
I wonder if Nethack 3.4.3 or Slashem 0.8 could build on a recent version of A/UX...
a96 9 hours ago [-]
Would be interesting to see that. I used to build it on Coherent, HP-UX, and Aix at least IIRC. Maybe others. It was kind of fun except for all the curses and termcaps.
The page mentions there's an emulator that should be able to run it. Don't know if there's a local copy that could be used along with some method to transfer the sources. Cloud boxes might not suffice.
Funny how that rhythms with having a macOS install next to Asahi Linux. The more things change:)
Also, swapping through 26 floppies to install would have been... Something.
Perfectly normal.
You would need a few for MS-DOS (I think only MS-DOS 3.3 was the last that could fit into an high density one).
Followed by about 10 for Windows 3.x, similar numbers for Turbo Pascal, Turbo C++, Clipper, Word, Excel (replace with the competition),....
And before installing all of that, don't forget to as very first step, create backup floppies from all of them, and actually use the backups during the installations, while keeping the originals in a safe place, not that the drive could damage one of them.
Windows 95 was about that size, and Office was closer to 50?
At my very first job I remember installing stuff that way...ugh
The later MacOS running on A/UX ran in a single A/UX (system V) process
https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-127
We installed it from a QIC tape when it wasn't delivered on a SCSI hard drive. Not sure if that option was generally available tho; we were doing kernel development.
Learnt TCP/IP with this setup. Good Times(tm)
A/UX was created so Apple could bid on government contracts that had a "must be Unix and/or POSIX" checkbox (common requirement at the time). IMO, they should have either gone all-in on a "MacOS apps running perfect on a Unix kernel" and picked a better kernel, or done the Atari thing and tossed the legacy OS and gone all in on a "Unix on Apple hardware". Instead it was 'meh' all around.
I still have a legit copy of Word on 10 floppies.
It was bad. And when you'd copy so many floppies, typically one would fail and you'd only notice when installing. We weren't very advanced back then (at least I wasn't): no fancy an 11th "parity" disk that'll fix any other one that'd fail. At least not for me.
The data CD-ROM was a very welcome addition to the world back then.
The page mentions there's an emulator that should be able to run it. Don't know if there's a local copy that could be used along with some method to transfer the sources. Cloud boxes might not suffice.